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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 6, 2018 13:03:24 GMT
I haven't written in it much, but I will agree- there's a lot of research that has to go into it.
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Post by jliessa44 on Jan 7, 2018 4:31:55 GMT
The research is why I never write it.... >.<
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Post by Dmitri Pendragon on Feb 8, 2018 7:47:39 GMT
Hey all! Epically awesome site here that I've found very useful for building my writing skills. Its stated purpose is to equip young adults to write for Christ. kingdompen.org
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Mar 10, 2018 13:55:19 GMT
What makes a first chapter good? (In your own personal experience.)
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Post by Dmitri Pendragon on Mar 11, 2018 21:30:11 GMT
When I read a first chapter, I want to see the main character being active in his or her normal world, pursuing some goal that will eventually lead him or her into the main conflict. I want to be given an immediate sense of the protagonist's character, personality and normal attitudes. I do not want the character's life history up to this point. And finally, I want it to be exciting. I want it to pull me into the story.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Mar 12, 2018 13:07:53 GMT
Well, I guess it should be interesting? It has to do something to catch my attention. And, like Dmitri said, it needs to give me a pretty good sense of the main character (or characters, if appropriate). But it also has to give me context for the rest of the book, not just the main character but the story as a whole. This kind of drove me crazy about the first chapter of Before She Ignites, because it basically just dropped me into the story with no context or explanation of anything that's going on. So, it was exciting and it was extremely plot-relevant, but I was like "What's going on? Someone explain!" In, say, The Invisible Library, on the other hand, the first chapter is less directly related to the plot, but it does a really good job of showing me what I'm dealing with in terms of character, world, potential conflicts, and so on, and it's pretty exciting. I guess that's kind of the same thing Dmitri said, with the character active in the normal world, but . . . yeah.
On a related note: prologues? Yea or nay?
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Mar 13, 2018 15:03:27 GMT
So the points that you both made raise another question: how do you introduce the story world, have something exciting happen, AND make the reader care about the main character? I think the Magician's Nephew actually did this very well. But being able to do all three things at once is rare. Usually opening chapters focus more on action than character development, or too much on character development and not enough on action, or too much storyworld and not enough of the others *cough cough most old books - but we have more patience for them because they are old* How do you know whether you've done too much of one and not enough of the others?
Prologues: I like the ones that are optional reads. Maybe it is because I'm a bit of a history buff as well as a fantasy reader, but I like the Lord of the Rings prologue which gives 'historical' & background information. Generally, prologues that are like the one in Eragon I am more wary of. I like that they immediately give action (battles!), but they are dangerous because even if they are a good hook, they might not set up the story in the right way. It feels weird to eat cake and ice cream first and then go to salad.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Mar 13, 2018 19:35:15 GMT
Mmmm, I think that depends a bit on the series- if your character's normal world is naturally exciting, obviously you'll have a much easier time with it. (Come to think of it, that's what gave The Invisible Library a pretty distinct advantage in that area.) I guess one way you could look at it is that "normal world" doesn't mean "(totally) normal day." Look at The Hunger Games. The Reaping isn't a normal day, no, but it is part of Katniss's normal world. Or, depending on the plot, you can carefully hint at wrongness in the normal world, if that makes sense.
Interesting. I like your metaphor, though.
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Post by jliessa44 on Mar 14, 2018 22:18:33 GMT
On opening chapter, I think establishing a character's likability is the most important. If I don't like the character I'm not as likely to continue, but I'll probably give a book two or three chapters for the plot to get interesting.
As for prologues, I'm a nah. I at best skim them and I've seen very few that were actually necessary to the plot/worldbuilding. Most can be summed up in a couple sentences or paragraphs at a point the information is actually relevant to the story.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Mar 31, 2018 14:16:13 GMT
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Post by Dmitri Pendragon on Apr 1, 2018 21:35:21 GMT
Unfortunately, I do not qualify, for shipping to my country is too expensive.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Apr 2, 2018 0:45:09 GMT
Aw. That stinks.
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Post by theinconceivable1 on Apr 29, 2018 8:04:34 GMT
Question: does winning contest give you any "credit" per-say in the writing world or not really? also, what do you do if your trash at grammar XD
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Apr 29, 2018 18:33:53 GMT
Not much. Unless it's a very big one put on by a prestigious organization.
Grammar can be learned over time. Practice and it will become second nature. But just do your best at first and then revise it later. The first (& 2nd & 3rd, et al) draft is telling yourself the story, and then you tell the story for others. That's when you worry about grammar.
Also, if you plan to publish, you can hire an editor to correct grammar. All publishing houses do, many pro indie authors as well.
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Post by theinconceivable1 on Apr 29, 2018 19:38:56 GMT
cool! thanks. Should I post some un-edited (aka un grammar revised) writing or no? I'm wondering because I have a very few select pieces that are grammarly sound and I don't need feedback on those, I already liked them enough to grammar-ize them XD so Its not really very helpful if I only can show you guys my polished writing.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Apr 30, 2018 1:17:31 GMT
theinconceivable1: If you want to post unedited writing, you can. That said, it depends what kind of feedback you're looking for. I, personally, am more likely to take the time to make comments and suggestions on things like characters, plot, and such if I'm not distracted by a lot of grammar errors that I want to correct. Welcome to the UG/Whitehall, by the way! It's nice to see a new face! I'm Leilani Sunblade, one of the Sentinels/moderators here. If you need help with anything, just let me know!
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Post by theinconceivable1 on Apr 30, 2018 7:15:52 GMT
@leilani Sunblade: awesome! I've been around a bit and your really active! I'm excided to be here!
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on May 16, 2018 2:04:56 GMT
Does anyone else ever go back and reread super old writing just to remember when you wrote it and then end up laugh-cringing at how much your writing style and characters have changed since then? Characters especially . . . the thing I'm currently reading has one of the earliest incarnations of Jared Alyron in it (before he was an Alyron; he used to be Jared D'vine, because young teenage me thought she was being clever with names) and it's super weird. It's like I was trying to fit both the angsty-loner-with-a-tragic-past cliche and the cocky-and-snarky-almost-rogue cliche into one character. It was bad.
Anyone else have this problem/experience?
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Post by TheLostLordofAllyra on May 16, 2018 2:13:42 GMT
Does anyone else ever go back and reread super old writing just to remember when you wrote it and then end up laugh-cringing at how much your writing style and characters have changed since then? Characters especially . . . the thing I'm currently reading has one of the earliest incarnations of Jared Alyron in it (before he was an Alyron; he used to be Jared D'vine, because young teenage me thought she was being clever with names) and it's super weird. It's like I was trying to fit both the angsty-loner-with-a-tragic-past cliche and the cocky-and-snarky-almost-rogue cliche into one character. It was bad. Anyone else have this problem/experience?
Haha, yes! I totally get it! I do that ALL THE TIME. I look at the very beginning of my book that I'm writing and even though it was originally written a year ago, it's SO far away from where I am now. I read some of the parts I had written and just say, "Yup, O-kay, THAT part is definitely not going in the final product! What was I thinking?" XD It's such a difference, y'know?
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Post by theinconceivable1 on May 16, 2018 9:43:48 GMT
Does anyone else ever go back and reread super old writing just to remember when you wrote it and then end up laugh-cringing at how much your writing style and characters have changed since then? Characters especially . . . the thing I'm currently reading has one of the earliest incarnations of Jared Alyron in it (before he was an Alyron; he used to be Jared D'vine, because young teenage me thought she was being clever with names) and it's super weird. It's like I was trying to fit both the angsty-loner-with-a-tragic-past cliche and the cocky-and-snarky-almost-rogue cliche into one character. It was bad. Anyone else have this problem/experience? defidently... I actually find it really annoying XD. Then you end up rewriting the peice and making it "better" only for it to be bad again a year or two later! ug, I deidently feel ya.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on May 16, 2018 11:35:05 GMT
I was just reading a previous draft yesterday and feeling exactly the same. A lot is indeed horrible. Yet I am always surprised when I come across a bit that is actually good. That makes me happy.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on May 16, 2018 12:47:15 GMT
TheLostLordofAllyra: What I'm reading is from so long ago, it isn't even in a current WIP (thought I'm halfway tempted to steal the plot, which is one of the only decent things about it, and rework it into a new WIP), but I've definitely had your exact situation too. Though in my case, the start of the book is from more like two years before the end of it. Out of curiosity, are you a planner or a pantser? Because I feel like some of my problem on that score is caused by the fact that I'm a pantser (and was more of one when I started the book in question.) theinconceivable1: Thankfully, if I rewrite this, it'll be a complete clean-slate rewrite, but . . . yeah. Exactly as you said. Warrior of Aror: True! The "Oh, hey, I actually am a good writer!" bits are delightful. And then you think, "Well, if there's good bits in this, that's mostly bad, then that means the stuff I'm writing now that I'm feeling down about probably isn't that bad either."
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Post by TheLostLordofAllyra on May 16, 2018 15:48:16 GMT
Leilani Sunblade Yeah, I'd say I'm more of a pantser. I don't really like outlines, haha. So I just go with the flow with things.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on May 16, 2018 16:08:42 GMT
TheLostLordofAllyra: Same. I've started outlining more, though, as my stories get too complicated . . . nothing extensive, just some notes on where I think the story will probably go and such.
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Post by TheLostLordofAllyra on May 16, 2018 20:53:59 GMT
TheLostLordofAllyra : Same. I've started outlining more, though, as my stories get too complicated . . . nothing extensive, just some notes on where I think the story will probably go and such.
Nice! Yeah, I mean, there's a vague outline of my general plot in my head, but it just doesn't work for me if I write it down. And yes, I have a TON of random notes and stuff.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on May 17, 2018 0:01:56 GMT
TheLostLordofAllyra I get you. Basically what I'm doing is just writing that vague outline down and then filling it out a tiny bit. Of course, half the time I end up abandoning that plan halfway through, so it really doesn't matter. xD But yes, random notes are life. I have so many notes on small pieces of paper and in the margins of things and whatnot.
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Post by Lylyss on Jun 2, 2018 10:52:26 GMT
Ultimate Novel Writing Tag 1. What's the central conflict of your story? 2. To what extent are the characters reflections of yourself? 3. Describe your writing voice. How do you want your novel to sound? (e.g. old-fashioned, edgy, psychodelic.) 4. Are there any parts of the story that you're uncomfortable or nervous about writing? 5. Who is your intended audience and how do you want them to feel when they close the book?
I tag everyone who reads this and wishes to do it!
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jun 2, 2018 15:51:39 GMT
Awesome tag, Ly.
1. Daret is trying to get to the Land of Light, but he doesn't know how to and gets lost along the way; and there are some nasty people who don't want him to get there, of course. 2. Because I know no one else as well as I do myself, I have to rely on my own personal sense of what is a reasonable response or action. So in some ways (the subconscious ones, anyway) they are too similar. Something I need to work on. 3. A little old-fashioned, but this mostly comes from the fact that I want it to feel as though the author is speaking straight to the reader and being simple and honest. 4. Right now, the denouement. I feel utterly incapable of showing the conclusion with the power and resonancy it deserves. 5. 12 year olds. I hope they feel like they had just went through a long tunnel they thought they might never come out of, and then the breaking dawn suddenly turns all the shadows to gold and they find they had to conquer the tunnel to meet the bright sunrise.
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Post by TheLostLordofAllyra on Jun 2, 2018 16:36:36 GMT
Ultimate Novel Writing Tag1. What's the central conflict of your story? 2. To what extent are the characters reflections of yourself? 3. Describe your writing voice. How do you want your novel to sound? (e.g. old-fashioned, edgy, psychodelic.) 4. Are there any parts of the story that you're uncomfortable or nervous about writing? 5. Who is your intended audience and how do you want them to feel when they close the book? I tag everyone who reads this and wishes to do it! Hmm...let's see.
1. Two groups of heroes from two different worlds must join together to defeat both of their enemies who have also joined together. (I know, sounds confusing) 2. Well, they are all their own. At least, I try to make them like that, but some of the characters who are my favorites, have a bit of my personality too. 3. Not sure. I guess kind of a natural feel to the well-known characters. Idk. 4. Little romance bits. I have to make them perfect for the characters, and definitely not cheesy! Also, I couldn't bear to kill off characters. Any characters. 5. Those who have read the books before obviously or else you don't get it.(it's a crossover book which is risky) I want them ultimately to feel like I got the characters on point and to have a different perspective of things now. And to think "Wow, that actually worked out. It wasn't bad."
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Post by theinconceivable1 on Jun 2, 2018 21:31:33 GMT
oh this looks fun! my turn! 1. uh, I know this sounds unoriginal but what else could I say then good VS evil? 2. hum on a 1-10 scale I would say a 6. My main character is obviously a pretty big reflection of myself but the others are based off people I know who are VERY different from me. 3. my writing voice is modern even though I'm writing in a medieval period. I just don't like medieval books that don't flow because of all the "old fashioned" words so I'm not going to make one. 4. um, I'm with The Lost Lord Allyra, romance (if I have any) will definitely be difficult. Technically speaking I've already written the book but otherwise I would say the heaven seen. Right now I'm going threw the rough draft and changing a lot of things. Its VERY rough XD 5. teens and I guess like sharing their faith to the world!
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