|
Post by Ellron Silvertree on Oct 21, 2015 5:36:47 GMT
Firstly, lighting and choke are nowhere near what I call limited. Secondly, he has different suits for the situation, so if he knew what he was up against then I don't doubt that he would have a suit made specifically to fare well against a Mando'a fighting style. Thirdly, if we are going to assume that Javez's armor renders Iron Man completely useless them there's no point in bringing it up in the first place. I tend to put both sides' weapons damage and armor on relatively equal footing, so that I can focus on other aspects, such as fighting style and actual type of weapons. Maybe I "shouldn't" do that because it's not realistic or whatever, but hey. So even assuming that Javez has superior armor, I would remind you that there are certain well spots in the armor, such as neck, back of the knees, and armpits, for the sake of mobility, just like with any armor of that style. Iron Man has no such thing, simply because he has a robotic suit. Made Windu was able to cut Jango Fett's head off by catching him in the neck with a plasma blade. Because we don't know the exact nature of Iron Man's energy blast, I'm going to assume that they are either plasma or concussion blasts. I don't know what else they could feasibly be. But if there plasma then they would have a very similar effect and damage to a lightsaber, meaning if he can hit a weak spot them is gonna do a heck of a lot of damage, and even if it doesn't it will still have an effect. Beskar is resistant to lightsaber blades, not impervious. And if it's concussion, the blast would be enough to knock Javez back pretty hard and, unless his armor is padded, would still cause him bodily harm on impact. As for Force powers, I already responded to that. But I'll go into a bit of detail. As we saw in the first Avengers movie, lightning doesn't have to desired effect on the Iron Man suit, and actually overclocks it to super mode. Choke would have to reach through the suit, which it could possibly do. But then we have the matter of JARVIS, who can take control of the Iron Man suit if need be and fight back while Tony is choking.
Also, claiming that Javez can simply incapacitate Iron Man with the Force is just silly, because that also automatically answers the question for every single force adept vs non force user fight ever, which, as we've seen in the movies (which I knew you have said in the past that you regard them as your primary source for canon information) simply isn't true (entry General Grevious or the magnagards or just about any non Force user in the movies who fights a Jedi).
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Oct 21, 2015 14:46:58 GMT
Your info is all off... lightning is a quite exclusive power to strong force users, and Force choke was only weilded by a few strong users as well. Have you seen Star Wars?? Where Vader chokes a guy through space in a different starship??? And you question whether or not it can go through a suit... No, Iron man's repulsors are not plasma, they're just "energy repulsors". Apparently easy to dodge, according to the movies, especially when he's at the long range you reference, and especially with the help of the Force . Funny how you should mention Grievous, who's condition is due in part to an internal force attack. In my opinion, Jedi are weak. Restrained. Javez is no such thing. He can deal with anything Iron Man throws at him, and he can literally crush Stark's windpipe or carve his chest open.
|
|
|
Post by WookieeElf on Oct 21, 2015 15:20:24 GMT
I have to agree that Javez would beat the snot out of Stark, but not that the Jedi are weak. Restrained, true, but you saw what happens when a Jedi gets a little overboard (*cough*Anakin*cough*). I mean, have you seen the list of Force-powers available to the Jedi? Some of them are really crazy—like Morichiro. That could put you in a death-like trance for thousands of years. Also, I remember a Clone Wars (not the TV show, the 2-D one) scene where Mace Windu uses the Force to literally pulverize a group of SBDs with his bare hands. And don't get me started on Yoda—nearly 900 years old, using a cane and a personal hover-chair, yet flipping around the room like he's a gymnast in the Olympics? The Force is powerful when used correctly. Use it with too much anger (Sith), it burns you out. Use it with too much restraint (Jedi), you never unlock the full potential.
Getting back on topic: Liam, Caedmon, Ze'yer and Caprina Versus Two of those creepy wood-creatures NightBlade made up a loooong time ago.
|
|
|
Post by Leilani Sunblade on Oct 21, 2015 16:00:03 GMT
Hmm . . . depends whether or not any of them know how to defeat the creepy wood-creatures. Our heroes would put up an excellent fight, but unless the wood-creatures can be killed by traditional means (decapitation, stabbing through the chest, etc.), they're kind of in trouble.
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Oct 21, 2015 17:15:02 GMT
WookieeElf Ok you're right, I mean not in like a "not powerful" sense, but that they restrain their own potential. No matter how strong an Jedi may be, there's always a Sith that is stronger because he is not restrained by a code or morality. The Sith exercise the Force to its full potential--there was once a Sith who crushed a massive space station between two stars using the Force. Javez isn't well trained, it's true. But he has raw power...and he has anger. A whole lot of anger. As for said individuals versus the wood monsters, I think that they miiiight be able to beat the monsters. But they would literally have to break them into bits, hacking apart the limbs to render them harmless. And I'm afraid the good guys would take some casualties :/ Caedmon for one would probably do something really stupid and heroic and get smashed. But in the end they could prevail. Ze'yer would probably observe how to best fight the creatures fairly quickly, and supposing he could communicate with Caprina, the two of them could do some hefty damage to the beasties.
|
|
|
Post by Ellron Silvertree on Oct 21, 2015 18:30:00 GMT
NightBlade: I am fully aware of the nature of lightning and choke, thank you. That's why I said that those don't seem to match your description of Javez's "limited" force powers. As for Sith being stronger than Jedi, I would have to disagree. More deadly, yes, but that simply shows that Jedi have more self control. Jedi refuse to do that which is morally reprehensible, which means they choose the more peaceful route. That doesn't mean that because a Sith is willing to do more that he is objectively stronger or more powerful. Okay, they aren't plasma. Whatever. But "energy repulsor" means absolutely nothing. That's just a cop out way of "explaining" something that one can't be bothered to explain with actual physics. There has to be some actual form of energy being fired. You can't just say "energy" and leave it at that--does that mean carbohydrates? Protein? And would you mind giving an actual example from the movies to support your claim that they're easy to dodge? I'm not contesting it, I just want some evidence. His suit can also fire a constant beam of "energy". To find out how much power that beam has we would need to determine what is the nature of the beam. And please don't just say "energy" or "energy repulsor".
Also, you ignored my arguments about how lightning would juice the suit, and you missed the point of my mention of Grevious. The point was that if the Force is all powerful, why doesn't Obi-Wan or any other Jedi just pin him down with the Force (as you claim Javez could, and you have stated he had limited Force capability--Jedi have no such thing, especially not with abilities like telekinesis) and chop him up? If you use the movies as a main reference, and powerful force users can't even do that to competent fighters (obviously people like the scrubs Vader jokes are not that), then why would Javez be able to do that to Iron Man? You also ignored my comments about the weak points on Javez's armor and about JARVIS.
Finally, could you please not indirectly (or directly) attack my intelligence or knowledge on the subject at hand? It's unbecoming, and it shows a lack of mutual respect between peers, which damages your argument and lowers my desire to take your seriously. I've been trying to respect your intelligence on the matter and just make an attempt to counter your claims, but if you choose not to respond in kind then I'm not going to respond. I came here to have a light argument between friends and peers, not have my knowledge insulted by someone for whom I have, quite frankly, and rather high respect of their Star Wars and military knowledge.
Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Oct 21, 2015 18:47:10 GMT
Ellron SilvertreeI see it in terms of some Jedi and Sith have, say, "6/10" force points and some have "8/10" force points. Yeah, some Jedi have more sheer Force power than others. But the Jedi will, by rule, not fully use their abilities. The Sith will. Given a Jedi and Sith of equal Force ability, the Sith could be capable of learning/using all the skills (yes even healing) that the Jedi can, and more. For example, Force Maelstrom. I'm aware that there are Jedi knock offs in certain expanded universe sources. But at the root, it's the same thing, just with a self-righteousn attitude. Carbs and proteins are sources of energy. Plasma is a state of matter. "Energy" is simply a property. The official sources of Iron Man's repulsors simply say "energy". I'm not gonna make anything specific up to fill it in. I once again say that, for the most part, his weapons are non-lethal and Javez can easily deal with them. I mean yeah, the movies gave him little rocket darts and a laser beam. They could be blocked (and the latter redirected can at Stark). As for the dodging, I'm just saying that some of Iron Man's more mobile opponents were able to dodge his blasts. And Javez can dodge, block, fly, etc. I wasn't targeting your intellect, I was just trying to target your arguments. I guess I felt like you were just saying things, trying to prove that Iron Man was better.
|
|
|
Post by Ellron Silvertree on Oct 21, 2015 19:07:59 GMT
I guess I decided to take the role of devils advocate because I felt that Iron Man would at least fare better than being completely smoked. He might lose, but it would be a floor wipe. Energy or whatever else, I can't accept that they're lasers, because lasers are amplified light. That's obviously not what Tony has. Lasers aren't visible in thin air. They need a medium like fog to be visible.
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Oct 21, 2015 19:26:34 GMT
Yeah I'll definitely give you that.
No I mean he has a separate wrist laser. I think it was in the second movie, if I remember. It was just a one shot thing that sliced things in half. If that got bounced back at him, that would be bad
|
|
|
Post by gamemastergrimwarden on Oct 22, 2015 1:12:35 GMT
Elmo and Kermit vs Barney the Dinosaur
|
|
|
Post by Aviar Goldeneagle on Oct 22, 2015 1:18:36 GMT
Barney's probably too nice to fight anyone.
|
|
|
Post by WookieeElf on Oct 22, 2015 1:25:22 GMT
Barney's already dead inside. Easy win for Elmo and Kermit.
|
|
|
Post by Ellron Silvertree on Oct 22, 2015 15:34:46 GMT
NightBlade: Okay, gotcha. Fair enough.
Elmo and Kermit win all day. Barney would be arrested before he could actually fight back.
|
|
|
Post by Kirenyth Fireblade on Oct 22, 2015 22:39:18 GMT
The Avengers (assuming Quicksilver is alive, not counting the Vision) vs the Seven Lords plus Taeva
|
|
|
Post by Ellron Silvertree on Oct 23, 2015 17:58:42 GMT
Avengers. As much as I like the Lords, the Avengers have superhuman everything, plus the Hulk. They pretty much have everything the Lords have and then some.
|
|
|
Post by Leilani Sunblade on Oct 23, 2015 20:08:36 GMT
I agree with Ellron. The average power and skill level of the Avengers is rather higher than that of the Seven Lords. Plus, the Avengers have three members who basically can't be killed; the Seven only have one.
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Oct 23, 2015 22:21:34 GMT
Deadpool versus Deathstroke
(I have a personal opinion on this one but I wanna hear what yall think)
Deadpool, Punisher, Captain America and Thor versus Batman, Red Hood, Green Arrow and Deathstroke
|
|
|
Post by Ellron Silvertree on Oct 24, 2015 6:36:12 GMT
As far as I can tell, Deadpool is basically unstoppable, so that would be my bet. He literally killed his author (in the comics. He broke the fourth wall and killed his author.) and both the Hulk and Wolverine if I remember correctly. You can't do much to a guy who heals that fast.
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Oct 24, 2015 14:38:23 GMT
He killed the whole universe once, haha.He also has a carbonadium sword that cancels Deathstroke's healing factor.
|
|
|
Post by Ellron Silvertree on Oct 24, 2015 22:18:57 GMT
Yeah, I heard that he somehow wrote himself in (or something) a magic Sword that could kill healers.
|
|
|
Post by WookieeElf on Oct 25, 2015 0:11:53 GMT
^^^That makes me chuckle, yet feel sad at the same time.
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Oct 25, 2015 17:07:48 GMT
Sad? Why? Deadpool's swords came from the Carbonadium Synthesizer in Russia, which other supers used like Omega Red.
|
|
|
Post by WookieeElf on Oct 25, 2015 18:45:08 GMT
Well, when a guy who can heal himself creates a sword that can kill healers...it makes you question why he created it.
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Oct 25, 2015 19:28:48 GMT
To kill other healers....? And idk if he made them himself
|
|
|
Post by WookieeElf on Oct 25, 2015 19:34:24 GMT
Well, yeah, there's that. *shrugs*
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Nov 3, 2015 21:49:15 GMT
A squad of ODSTs and Blue Team, headed by Master Chief, and accompanied by the Arbiter... Versus Captain America, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Kara, Kayma, Demga and Teyia.
|
|
|
Post by Leilani Sunblade on Nov 3, 2015 22:25:49 GMT
Which Arbiter is this? A Spartan thing? Or the one from the first Supers arc?
|
|
|
Post by WookieeElf on Nov 3, 2015 23:29:47 GMT
Leilani Sunblade: It's from Halo. Oooh, toughie. I wanna say Chief and the gang, but I like Obi and Cap and I've created Kara and Teyia... You've put me into a predicament, NightBlade.
|
|
|
Post by NightBlade on Nov 4, 2015 0:59:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Leilani Sunblade on Nov 4, 2015 1:01:05 GMT
That's kind of terrifying. Just thinking of it from a "I/a character is going to be fighting this" standpoint.
|
|