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Post by Ellron Silvertree on Dec 15, 2015 18:51:49 GMT
It's actually only one addition problem ;)
Fun fact: the reason that three sizes is considered the mark of the beast is because in Jewish culture three sevens was considered perfection (well, I mean seven sevens, too, but ya know), so 666 falls short of perfection and is bad. Basically :P
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Post by NightBlade on Dec 15, 2015 20:34:36 GMT
666 I said it xP haha
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Post by Lērtāen Miklul on Dec 31, 2015 18:49:02 GMT
@ellron: There's also the mark of the beast in Revelation 13:18.
The three sixes is kinda one of those things that I think isn't exactly inherently evil (this is, of course, because this event in Revelation is an as-of-yet unfulfilled prophecy), but I don't like joking about
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Post by Ellron Silvertree on Jan 16, 2016 5:18:54 GMT
Has anyone heard from the good Author? I feel like the advantage of him using this as *the* forum is that it's already well established. The last post on his form was December 1st, and it had no reply. It's obviously not doing much in the ways of activity. On the other hand, we don't really have much in the ways of WTB book discussion on this forum. I think that's basically because we've pretty much talked the books to death. But I'm sure there's something to discuss that we have yet to bring up. Maybe? At any rate, it seems clear that his form lacks activity, and we want more here. If we came directly under Sir Batson once again, those who visit his site might actually join the forum if they see it active, which they would if this is said forum. I also think it would be neat to have Mr. Batson on our forum again. But then, we would also have to follow whatever rules he set forth, which may differ from what we have now. Who knows?
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 16, 2016 13:31:28 GMT
Has anyone heard from the good Author? I feel like the advantage of him using this as *the* forum is that it's already well established. The last post on his form was December 1st, and it had no reply. It's obviously not doing much in the ways of activity. On the other hand, we don't really have much in the ways of WTB book discussion on this forum. I think that's basically because we've pretty much talked the books to death. But I'm sure there's something to discuss that we have yet to bring up. Maybe? At any rate, it seems clear that his form lacks activity, and we want more here. If we came directly under Sir Batson once again, those who visit his site might actually join the forum if they see it active, which they would if this is said forum. I also think it would be neat to have Mr. Batson on our forum again. But then, we would also have to follow whatever rules he set forth, which may differ from what we have now. Who knows? If we wanted discussion of WTB and CH's books on this forum, we could have it. It's just that, as you said, most of us have said nearly everything that could be said. I would like to have both Sir Batson and Sir Hopper on the forum again- though in all the years I've been on the UG, neither has been especially involved. Not since the Tribe Hunt thingy ended. They drop in now and then, say hello, how are things going, and make announcements, and then go about their days. Regarding rules: the rules on Whitehall are essentially the same as the ones on the Underground. Those rules were made by the Sentinels and approved by Sir Hopper and Sir Batson. I doubt Sir Batson would wish them changed (though, obviously, I could be wrong).
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Post by Ellron Silvertree on Jan 16, 2016 13:54:11 GMT
This is all true, but I do feel like the rules have changed a little bit. I'm not really sure exactly how, but it seems that way. To me, anyways.
I wonder, would Sir Batson garner more interest for his new forum if he did another event thing?
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 16, 2016 14:07:32 GMT
The rules have changed, yes, in that they've been added to as circumstances arise. In the beginning, there weren't rules for roleplay threads because roleplay threads were rather different then than they are now. However, the general rules remain the same.
Another event thing probably would draw people to whichever forum it was hosted on, yes.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Apr 15, 2016 18:33:08 GMT
We need to come to some conclusion about the future of the Underground. I think it's important to have everyone here add their piece to the conversation and decide as a community how to solve the problems that face us now.
Perhaps I am alone in this, but I want to see the Underground as a group of fantasy book enthusiasts - whatever title it may go under in the future - last beyond our own activity. I've always thought of there being "generations" of members in the Underground. As each generation moves on, they forget about the Underground, and then another one comes along, and many, if not all, of the older generation no longer makes frequent appearances. It's not a science, but I've always thought of myself as being part of the third generation. And now, thinking about other members who joined at the same time as me, I'm shocked and saddened at how few there are. That said, those whom I have known for these past years have come to be very dear friends to me.
And that is really what I see the Underground as. It is a place where friendships are made. Perhaps we never see a face behind the name, but they are true friends, ones we can share the stories with that we might be too embarrassed to share in real life, friends we can be brutally honest with, friends to pray for, to talk with, to listen to, to laugh with, to share adventures with.
Perhaps I am being dramatic. But isn't it wondrous that we can share so much with friends that we have never met?
The fact is that each one of us will at some point leave the Underground. We will not be able to stay in this sort of community forever. I think the friendships will live on in some way another, but this place, the Underground, it will die as soon as we begin to leave if we don't do something about it.
I want to see a community of Christian fantasy book nerds live on, even after we leave, because what I've experienced here has been so great, I want others to be able to have those same experiences too.
And so, the Underground must grow. I think we all can agree on this.
Seeing as there really hasn't been any focus on the Berinfell Prophecies or any Batson book at all for years, I don't think this really needs to be a Batson forum (plus, there are disadvantages. It limits who would be attracted to joing because the books weren't too popular to begin with and because they are so dated). As a side note, the header picture should probably be changed anyway because of copyright infringements. Not that the owner would actually care, but it's not ours and so we really shouldn't be using it.
If we want to attract new users, we have to go to new pools of people.
The second thing. We do have to have more exposure if we want the Underground to grow some again. Let's face it - there's never going to be any way that an internet forum is going to be completely safe. But there are easy ways to keep out 99.9% of the stalkers/creepers/nasty people. The last point one percent can be dealt with by commonsense discretion.
There are many ways to get other Christian book nerds interested to our site, but it might require some change. Think about it. We need to keep the discussion about this issue continuing. After a while we can discuss how we actually get individuals to join the site. I'm assuming it will be mostly word of mouth, but I can give a bunch of other ways as well.
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Post by Lady Lessien on Apr 16, 2016 14:52:25 GMT
If we need to remodel the forum, I can help. I'm pretty good at that sort of thing. And I agree with Warrior.
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Post by NightBlade on Apr 16, 2016 20:07:24 GMT
Hey guys. My aforesaid sentiments are basically the exact same as Warry's. I've asked people to help me bring change to the underground before. I am wholly in favor of merging with a new forum. It is necessary for the survival of our community. Yet months later, what action has been taken? That being said, I have to clarify this one thing though... I haven't gone absent from the Underground just because it is old or because I got tired of it. It's not even because the roleplays slowed down. It was because of the complacancy of some of the existing members. I grew frustrated by the gross lack of consideration for being punctual in even the most simple ways, and leaving others to be held up for days, weeks even. People not realizing that they hold other people's characters in bondage. I understand forgetting; heck I forget literally everything. But the blatant disregard for taking things seriously causes problems and I know for a fact I am not the only one with frustrations about this. Those who know me will know that I'm not speaking in anger or individual accusation. I always speak what I believe plainly and frankly, so defensiveness will not be required by anyone. I've just been taking the time to live for a while without that frustration. But Leilani Sunblade and WookieeElf I will come back for our roleplays, if nothing else to give closure to our character friendships.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Apr 16, 2016 21:57:44 GMT
I agree that if we want the Underground to survive after we're gone, that we need to attract new people. I have no problem with that. And I have no problem with the site no longer being a Batson forum (it hasn't been one, really, since the last TBP book came out- perhaps longer than that), though I do hope we at least keep the name. At this point, it really seems to be more of a "Christian writers/bookworms/roleplayers forum." And if/when I mention it to anyone else, that's what I generally refer to it as. I don't know what kind of changes people are suggesting that we need to make, but I'm assuming they wouldn't be too significant ones. What we have here already is, in my opinion, pretty good. All we really need is more people. My main concern is that if we try some kind of YouTube advertising thing or similar, as people were suggesting at one point, we'll get a certain kind of person on here who we don't want on here. And maybe I'm taking a cynical or pessimistic view of things. Maybe I'm not giving humanity enough credit. But it's happened in the past and I don't want it to happen again. (And I know some of you won't remember it, because you weren't here for it. But jliessa44 was, at least, and I think a few others here were as well.) So, yes, we should try to get new people to come. But we should be thoughtful and deliberate in choosing what communities we invite.
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Post by jliessa44 on Apr 16, 2016 22:04:51 GMT
Yeah ditto. Like Nano Christian teens would be good people to recruit I think. But I've seen nasty people show up several times and YouTube or advertising generally is going to cause problems. NightBlade. Yeah. I know I do that a lot. But I've always just thought people would move on without me if they need to or if it's just us two then it may have to wait until I can.
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Post by WookieeElf on Apr 16, 2016 22:11:18 GMT
I agree with the advertising. I've dealt with weird people in the past, and I don't want to do it here. NightBlade, you'd better come back or I'm dragging you in by your pixelated ear. XP
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Post by Lady Lessien on Apr 17, 2016 12:14:29 GMT
My main problem with recommending this forum to new people is that I don't know what to recommend it AS. I think that as a community we need to establish that. (Also, I can help with finding a non-copyrighted header photo. Even one that's a castle)
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Post by jliessa44 on Apr 17, 2016 12:21:29 GMT
We had a photo, people asked us to change it so we did. We can change back I think.
And just recommend it as a community of young Christian writers and role players. 'S what it is
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Apr 17, 2016 17:20:46 GMT
Ads are not risky. I could explain why (I've had experience in social media advertising), but what's the point? I doubt you'd be convinced anyway, and I'd rather not spend my own money advertising this forum.
That wasn't even the point of the video, though. It would have been like a business card. Just saying "hi, you can join our forum of Christian book nerds, writers and roleplayers if you want to" is not very attractive. The video would be a way to get people interested, familiarize them with what we're about, and show them around. That way, we can share it with groups or individuals we think might like it, they get a good idea of what it is, and are more likely to join.
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Post by jliessa44 on Apr 17, 2016 17:56:30 GMT
It's also a really good way to let trolls know that we're a group of young Christians just waiting to be pestered.
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Post by NightBlade on Apr 17, 2016 18:08:14 GMT
Aim the ads in the right places and I'd say we're good. Not like plastered all over youtube and the internet at large, but targeted at the right places
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Apr 17, 2016 18:10:35 GMT
@liessa44 That is not true. Would you like me to explain?
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Post by WookieeElf on Apr 17, 2016 18:32:00 GMT
Maybe WTB can say something about it on FB? He did bring us all together, y'know...
And the ads/video are kinda iffy. Like jliessa said, it's basically a big neon sign for weirdos to come and mess around with us. I've dealt with trolls before on another forum—they took over and literally made me quit. I don't want that to happen here.
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Post by Ellron Silvertree on Apr 17, 2016 19:28:12 GMT
What's the worry about copyright, exactly? In the header, that is. If I recall correctly, WTB and CH released copyrights to the Berinfell prophecies to the public. I don't see the header on my phone, so I don't really know what the concern is there. Warry: I want you to explain, just because I'm curious about it The main issue here seems to be "attracting the wrong people." The thing is, if you want to attract ANYONE you're going to have to take that risk. It doesn't matter how you cut it, there's always going to be that risk. I feel like it really comes down to: you can keep it a small, tight knit community that will die with this generation, or you can make yourselves present to similarly minded communities and take a risk with the occasional troll, in which case the forum will probably live on in some way. I understand that you might be worried that if too many people (or the "wrong" people) join them the dynamic of the community will change. And I get that--but remember how much this community had already changed since it originated back in the day. Change isn't bad, and it is necessary sometimes. But it can also be difficult. The question is whether 'tis nobler to take the risk for the happiness of a later people, or to play it safe and let the Underground die in stagnancy. P.S. The reason I say "you" in this post is because I am not particularly active and therefore consider this issue to be more prevalent for others than for myself.
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Post by jliessa44 on Apr 17, 2016 19:38:44 GMT
@liessa44 That is not true. Would you like me to explain? No thank you. I know how it works. And it's not necessarily true. But it does have the potential.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Apr 17, 2016 20:25:56 GMT
Warrior of Aror: I would appreciate an explanation, even if Liessa knows how it works. @ellron: Yes, I'm aware that no matter where we go, there will be the chance of attracting the wrong kind of person. We could potentially attract the wrong kind of person simply by existing. What I'm saying, however, is that we should try to "advertise," so to speak, in places where we're less likely to attract those people, rather than just to the world at large. And, on that topic, if someone wants to make a video that people can share with their friends to introduce them to the Underground, that's fine. But I would ask that if it goes up on YouTube, that it remain unlisted and whatever else so that people aren't likely to stumble on it and see an opportunity to be jerks.
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Post by Starsinger on Apr 17, 2016 20:28:40 GMT
To be honest, I have little desire for an influx of newcomers. If it were to happen, I would request the existing Character Conversations thread to be deleted (which is unlikely to happen), or I'd trawl through and delete all my posts (plus take down my writing thread), because I am aware of how much of my writing is there, and how easy it would be for someone to steal my characters.
And yes, I am aware that I have little faith in people :/
P.S. This isn't meant to sound like a petulant threat, just to say where I am in this matter. I can understand people wanting it to grow as well.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Apr 17, 2016 20:58:45 GMT
Ellron Silvertree Okay. What you and NightBlade said is all true. So how would we target Christian readers? Basically we just narrow it down through a series of variables. Demographically, we'd probably want to target under 18. We can also easily target people just from the US (or NZ too. ), and, of course, only people who speak English. Then, the two most important things we can do to hyper target is, one, to using people's search histories (say, if they just googled "Batson books" we could then advertise to them on their newsfeed when they log in to facebook - crazy, huh?). And two, target only people who have liked Batson's facebook page or Bryan Davis' or some Christian NaNoWriMo group of some sort. The other thing we could do is, when using google adsense, advertise to people who have only previously visited the old Underground site (this is dependent upon whether they have cleared their browser's history or gotten a new computer, which most people probably have. But it might be worth a try) - or we could advertise to people who will search for the old site, even though they won't find it anymore. We could do this with any website we wished. We could also just enter the email addresses of a bunch of people we'd like to target and send facebook/google adsense ads towards them.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Apr 18, 2016 1:08:39 GMT
Starsinger: I certainly understand where you're coming from. That- the fear of copying- would be another reason to be careful about who we try to draw to the site. (On the Character Convo thread, though . . . it's already open to whoever happens across the site. Would you really delete all your posts?) Warrior of Aror: Thank you for that explanation.
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Post by Starsinger on Apr 18, 2016 1:11:48 GMT
Probably. I'd not really intended to start again after the old UG died, but y'know, it's a vortex for weirdos like me
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Post by NightBlade on Apr 18, 2016 5:17:33 GMT
I say we put idea of limited, targeted advertising/invitation to a vote. A simple yea's to nay's vote. I will start by saying aye.
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Post by Aviar Goldeneagle on Apr 18, 2016 6:01:56 GMT
Aye.
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Post by Lylyss on Apr 18, 2016 7:32:43 GMT
I'm in favor of ads. Don't know how it would work, or but we need more people.
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