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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jan 4, 2017 18:47:14 GMT
Heheh. XD
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 4, 2017 18:52:54 GMT
Warrior of Aror: That I don't know. A look at the historical context would probably give some clues, though.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jan 4, 2017 19:02:41 GMT
That would make sense. It sounds like you're sort of an expert on researching Bible topics. Do you do that in one of your classes or something?
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 4, 2017 19:10:23 GMT
Warrior of Aror: Expert? Not by half. But yes, I do- everyone at my college is required to complete a Bible minor, and a major part of the first class in that minor is learning how to use the context of a verse or passage to understand it.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jan 4, 2017 19:13:31 GMT
Ah, cool! Do you like that class?
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 4, 2017 19:26:13 GMT
Well . . . I confess that I didn't like the first class, but I think it's partially because another part of the class tried to put an objective grade on a subjective process. The other two classes in the minor I loved, though.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jan 4, 2017 19:32:38 GMT
I see how that could be aggravating. And if a minor in Bible is a forced requirement that isn't so cool. But Bible literacy is an interesting topic.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 4, 2017 19:37:57 GMT
I actually don't have a problem with the Bible minor being required. I wouldn't have taken the classes otherwise, and there has been beneficial material in all of them. So, yeah.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jan 4, 2017 19:44:07 GMT
I suppose it is to be expected from a college which heavily emphasizes that it is a Christian college. And it is a good thing that colleges can decide mandatory classes. The free market at work!
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Post by NightBlade on Jan 4, 2017 19:50:48 GMT
I wouldn't have chosen it either, and I like to complain about it, but they are useful and good to have. It's why I got sent to Cedarville x)
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Post by jliessa44 on Jan 4, 2017 19:51:35 GMT
Yeah. I would look at historical context there, but I would suspect it's due to Asia's history of being anti foreigner, and God had work for them elsewhere.
But a thought that comes to me is that doesn't actually say that no one was allowed. So maybe it was something that God had set aside for someone else to minister to combined with their tasks laying elsewhere.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 4, 2017 19:51:58 GMT
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jan 4, 2017 19:54:03 GMT
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Post by jliessa44 on Jan 4, 2017 19:55:48 GMT
XD That wasn't my intention, but you're welcome. XD
And thank you. Though, it's entirely speculation.
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Post by NightBlade on Jan 4, 2017 19:57:55 GMT
Ha yup. Otherwise I probably would have switched to Messiah. But hey, I'm glad I'm at where I'm at
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jan 4, 2017 19:59:20 GMT
Do any of you know if Asia (the continent) was ever referenced as Asia in the Bible? Because otherwise they would likely be talking about the Roman province of Asia, which was mainly just Turkey, I think.
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 4, 2017 19:59:44 GMT
jliessa44 : It's reasonable-sounding speculation, though. NightBlade : Where's Messiah? And why would you have switched to it? Edit: Warrior of Aror: To my understanding from my NT class last semester, it mostly refers to Asia Minor.
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Post by NightBlade on Jan 4, 2017 20:02:06 GMT
I think Asia Minor was mentioned by name somewhere. Perhaps as a translational alternative to Bythinia
@sunblade Messiah is in Pennsylvania, so much closer to home. I'd get a lot more money in scholarship, and my best friend transferred there after Freshman year
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Post by Leilani Sunblade on Jan 4, 2017 20:04:16 GMT
NightBlade: Ahhhh. I can definitely see why you'd want to go there, then.
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Post by Ellron Silvertree on Jan 4, 2017 22:46:37 GMT
My school has three Theology courses as part of the core curriculum, one of which is a sort of introduction to Biblical studies, from what I understand.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Jan 10, 2017 1:14:23 GMT
Have any of you read the Weight of Glory? This question will not make any sense if you haven't read that or otherwise came across C.S. Lewis' definition of "longing".
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else, kind of 'got' what he meant? I understand it on an intellectual level, but I don't really understand it. I suppose it's just one of those things which has to be experienced to know.
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Post by Warrior of Aror on Apr 29, 2018 18:44:23 GMT
theinconceivable1This is the theology thread. It's kind of an umbrella thread, so it need not be a "debate." Ask away.
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Post by theinconceivable1 on Apr 29, 2018 19:29:00 GMT
YAY! thanks for making the tread. So heres a question without deep theological importance that I have: you know that verse that says
"Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:3 we how is that posable if we consider the verse in Matthew 7:21-23 that says
'Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
this doesn't make any sense to me. any Ideas?
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Post by Alvar on Apr 30, 2018 1:30:37 GMT
"Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:3 To put this in terms of context, this verse is referring to people who actually mean what they say when they call Jesus Lord. For example, in James, we're told that even the demons know that Jesus is Lord, but they don't submit to Him. I would say that what Paul is saying here is that anyone who actually submits to Jesus as Lord has the Holy Spirit within them to do so (and let's be honest, basically no one would be able to submit to Jesus fully and completely without the help of the Holy Spirit). With that knowledge, understanding the quote from Matthew is a bit easier. Jesus is speaking about people who merely pretended to be followers of Jesus. They never fully submitted their lives to Him. You could say they are the people who have their Sunday persona that they lose the following Monday. The difference between saying "Jesus is Lord," by the Holy Spirit and saying "Lord, Lord," in falsehood is whether or not you actually believe Him to be Lord of your life. |
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Post by TheLostLordofAllyra on Apr 30, 2018 4:13:16 GMT
Warrior of Aror I have read CS Lewis's Weight of Glory essay! I had to read it for school. Yeah, I didn't really understand it fully either. I just really liked the part where he was describing fame and luminosity, and how fame is not also bad because God sees us as famous in His eyes. 
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Post by theinconceivable1 on Apr 30, 2018 9:41:36 GMT
"Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:3 To put this in terms of context, this verse is referring to people who actually mean what they say when they call Jesus Lord. For example, in James, we're told that even the demons know that Jesus is Lord, but they don't submit to Him. I would say that what Paul is saying here is that anyone who actually submits to Jesus as Lord has the Holy Spirit within them to do so (and let's be honest, basically no one would be able to submit to Jesus fully and completely without the help of the Holy Spirit). With that knowledge, understanding the quote from Matthew is a bit easier. Jesus is speaking about people who merely pretended to be followers of Jesus. They never fully submitted their lives to Him. You could say they are the people who have their Sunday persona that they lose the following Monday. The difference between saying "Jesus is Lord," by the Holy Spirit and saying "Lord, Lord," in falsehood is whether or not you actually believe Him to be Lord of your life. I don't know if this is how quoting works but here it goes. Ok I mean I see what you're saying but the people before Jesus aren't your average churchgoers, they cast out demons for goodness sake! A feat, as far as I know, impossible without the holy spirit... |
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Post by Alvar on Apr 30, 2018 12:19:07 GMT
I don't know if this is how quoting works but here it goes. Ok I mean I see what you're saying but the people before Jesus aren't your average churchgoers, they cast out demons for goodness sake! A feat, as far as I know, impossible without the holy spirit... Well you see, not all miracles come from God, per se. The Egyptian sorcerers in Exodus apparently knew many "secret" arts to perform their miracles. If we remember when God allowed Satan to torment Job, he used lightning, plagues, and the ability to cause houses to fall in on themselves. Satan's actions are definitely miraculous in nature, but not from God. In the New Testament, Paul confronted Elymas the Jewish sorcerer and false prophet, calling him a child of the devil, full of all kinds of deceit and trickery (Acts 13:6-11). So we see that not all miracles come from God and not all who perform miracles in the name of Jesus are truly His. These people that Jesus casts away are the people who entirely claim to be Christians to the point of preaching and building churches, but they never knew Him. An example of someone like this would be a famous "feel good" pastor who twists the Word to seem more welcoming to people of the world and never preaching the full truth. Another example is a person who claims that they can do healing miracles through the power of God, but of course they only claim that for their own personal gain. These many that Jesus talks about are the many people who CLAIM to know Jesus but never did the will of the Father. |
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Post by theinconceivable1 on Apr 30, 2018 19:37:56 GMT
Ok but I dont think you can cast out demons EXCEPT by the Holy spirit for two reasons: First theres that Jesus says when accused of casting out demons by satens power: " But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." Matthew 12:24-28
also when people who aren't real Christians try to drive out demons this is what seems to happen: "Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding." Acts 19: 13-16
but there is that berse that says: “Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." Luke 9: 49 which I frankly dont understand
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Post by Alvar on Apr 30, 2018 22:35:53 GMT
Ok but I dont think you can cast out demons EXCEPT by the Holy spirit; If this is so, then how come the sons of the Pharisees can cast out demons? You used the very verse that mentions Jesus asking the Pharisees about how their sons cast out demons if not by the power of God. If I may quote GotQuestions.org, Having the Holy Spirit definitely helped the early disciples to spread the Word and show that they were true followers of Christ. However, the Bible makes clear that other people can cast out demons without the Holy Spirit. In fact, the Antichrist is said to be able to use miracles and such in order to gain his following in the coming years. The difference is by whom and for what reason they actually cast out demons, which brings us back to the many who will say "Lord, Lord." They believed that by being good people and doing all these good things that they would get a free ticket to Heaven, but in fact they never once did it as a result of a relationship with Him. Anyone can be a good person but only the people who truly know Jesus and have a relationship with Him will get to spend eternity with Him. The whole point of that verse in Matthew is to warn against thinking you can earn your way to God's side by doing good things, rather than trusting in Christ to save you through your relationship with Him. |
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Post by theinconceivable1 on May 1, 2018 9:46:23 GMT
Ok but I dont think you can cast out demons EXCEPT by the Holy spirit; If this is so, then how come the sons of the Pharisees can cast out demons? You used the very verse that mentions Jesus asking the Pharisees about how their sons cast out demons if not by the power of God. If I may quote GotQuestions.org, Having the Holy Spirit definitely helped the early disciples to spread the Word and show that they were true followers of Christ. However, the Bible makes clear that other people can cast out demons without the Holy Spirit. In fact, the Antichrist is said to be able to use miracles and such in order to gain his following in the coming years. The difference is by whom and for what reason they actually cast out demons, which brings us back to the many who will say "Lord, Lord." They believed that by being good people and doing all these good things that they would get a free ticket to Heaven, but in fact they never once did it as a result of a relationship with Him. Anyone can be a good person but only the people who truly know Jesus and have a relationship with Him will get to spend eternity with Him. The whole point of that verse in Matthew is to warn against thinking you can earn your way to God's side by doing good things, rather than trusting in Christ to save you through your relationship with Him. Alright, that makes quite a bit of sense but that "a house divided cannot stand verse" is stopping me from being fully convinced. How does this verse not say that people cant cast out demons? (also are you a Calvinist? you sound likes some Calvinists I know.) |
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